Secretary Rubio With Mike Benz: We've Not Only Shut Down State's Censorship Program, We're Going To Document Who Was Censored

Mike Benz speaks with Secretary of State Marco Rubio about the end of the State Department's "Global Engagement Center" that has been described as the center of a "Censorship-Industrial Complex."

MIKKE BENZ: Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being here with us, sharing a very momentous day in the history of the State Department and the U.S. government in restoring free speech and America’s role as the beacon of free speech. Something very historic transpired today. Could you tell the American people what that was?

SECRETARY RUBIO: We ended government-sponsored censorship in the United States through the State Department. Let me explain how we got there. This started about 15 or 10 years ago with an effort to counter the messaging that al-Qaida, ISIS, and others were using to radicalize people. Who could be against that? It sounded normal. Then, in 2016, concerns arose about foreign interference in our elections, so we needed to target some of that content. By 2020, this had grown into a movement targeting individual American voices.

One of the ways this was done wasn’t just direct. The person running this program, Stengel, was out there saying Donald Trump talks like a Russian spy or a terrorist, and so do the people around him. They were also taking money from this program to fund NGOs and third-party groups that were supposed to be impartial. These groups were tagging and labeling voices in American politics—people like Ben Shapiro and The Federalist—as foreign agents. American taxpayers, through the State Department, were paying groups to attack and silence Americans. There were consequences: some of these people were deplatformed and couldn’t communicate. It was outrageous.

Before President Trump took over, they disbanded this unit, but they just renamed it and moved it elsewhere. Over the last few months, we’ve worked on it, taken it down, and to the extent we’re spending money now, it’s going to be on pro-American messaging that incentivizes and protects free speech, which is threatened worldwide, including in countries that are our allies. The best way to counter disinformation is free speech—to ensure that what’s true has an equal or greater opportunity to be communicated. We’ve learned that the hard way. When disinformation becomes a political weapon, a label to go after people you don’t like, it’s problematic. I read mainstream newspapers and watch broadcasts every day that I know are disinformation. For example, they keep calling a deported individual a “Maryland man” when he’s an El Salvador citizen deported to El Salvador. That’s disinformation. A U.S. senator claimed he was a kidnapped American citizen, published without fact-checking. Free speech allows us to counter that and say it’s not true.

In Western countries, people are being arrested for posting online. You’ve seen this, I’m sure. A post can lead to a cop knocking on your door, threatening jail time. This is crazy, and the Vice President addressed this at the Munich conference in February. We have a lot of work to do, but we’re ensuring that our communication to the world is pro-American, building up what this country is working on and explaining what we’re doing, not attacking Americans exercising their First Amendment rights.

MIKE BENZ: The classic work of the State Department in the 20th century. You mentioned this network paid through the State Department via grants and contracts. My understanding is that this network also targeted the Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy, Darren Beattie, who I believe played an important role in this restructuring.

Credit to you and the Under Secretary. One question remains: this is amazing news for the American people about the defunding and restructuring. There are lingering questions about what was done during that period, where people wonder if they were censored because of State Department actions. Was my news organization bankrupted? Were advertisers contacted? There are aggrieved parties, an important historical record to unearth, and active lawsuits. Are there efforts underway for public disclosure, like the Twitter Files, perhaps GEC files?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Yes. Darren will be heavily involved in documenting what happened. It’s one thing to say it in a broadcast like this, but another to put it on paper. There are two reasons for this: people who were harmed deserve to know and prove it, and we need to ensure it never happens again. Ten years from now, when someone proposes a similar idea, we can point to this and say, “This was done before, and here’s why we don’t do it.” Accountability provides justice and prevents future occurrences.

Fifteen years ago, if I asked whether we should do more to stop ISIS and al-Qaida from radicalizing people online, everyone would have said yes. But look what that turned into. Even a well-intentioned idea can metastasize into a weapon. When you create something, what it becomes under different leadership isn’t necessarily the same. That’s a valuable lesson.

MIKE BENZ: A Frankensteinian monster that takes on a life of its own. So, can you commit to the American public that there will be a transparency effort?

SECRETARY RUBIO: That’s already started. Justifying these actions required documentation. Now we’ll go more in-depth and create a process. We know some high-profile cases, but there are also everyday Americans who were labeled. This will require cross-jurisdictional work to prove someone was deplatformed in 2020 or 2021 and link it to State Department-funded actions. Showing that individual Americans were silenced because of this program will be eye-opening. We didn’t wait for full details to act, but we’re investigating the depth and scope, and it’s already happening.

MIKE BENZ: This program has been shrouded in secrecy. Journalists like Matt Taibbi have tried to FOIA these grants and contracts and hit a stone wall. This is amazing news.

I know you’re a busy man, and I appreciate your time. My final question is about the international stage. As you reposition the State Department to make the U.S. a global beacon for free speech and liberty, we face censorship laws from the European Union, Brazil, and a network of countries that have used the legitimacy of programs like the Global Engagement Center to justify media literacy and disinformation programs. Many GEC ecosystem partners, funded by the State Department and USAID, have shaped foreign laws, signed onto the EU Code of Disinformation, and implemented the EU Digital Services Act, which was threatened against Americans when Elon Musk hosted Donald Trump on X. What insights can you provide about how the State Department will restore free speech in a world with these foreign threats?

SECRETARY RUBIO: Our number one priority is Americans. We don’t want an American living in London or Europe posting about politics and facing ramifications, like being denied entry or arrested. Our broader point, as the Vice President made clear at the Munich Security Conference, is that shared values, like freedom of expression, link us with Western Europe. If those are eroded, a pillar of our shared interest is under attack. We’ve raised this issue, including in an Oval Office meeting with the UK prime minister. It’s part of our diplomatic discussions, especially with Western European allies, highlighting how far this problem has gone. The President and Vice President have raised it with multiple foreign leaders, and you’ll see continued emphasis on this in our diplomacy.
Question: That’s fantastic. Today’s actions send a message to foreign bodies that this brief period in our history isn’t a legitimate way to pursue international laws. On the EU Digital Services Act, the EU threatened Elon Musk, a non-EU citizen, talking to Donald Trump, a non-EU citizen, about UK protests, when the UK isn’t even an EU member. Now they’re threatening billion-dollar fines against X for disinformation noncompliance. This code becomes mandatory in July, so knowing the State Department is focused on protecting free speech is important.

SECRETARY RUBIO: Beyond Elon, when foreign entities like the EU target Americans for speech, it becomes a foreign policy irritant, even an impediment to cooperation. This could threaten commentators, officeholders, or anyone opining about world events. Imagine if a Western Hemisphere version of the EU threatened Americans criticizing El Salvador’s President Bukele—the left would be outraged. This is a legitimate issue for us to raise bilaterally or with the EU, focusing on its impact on American citizens. The State Department’s priority is serving the national interest and the American people.

MIKE BENZ: This is a fair and merciful approach. It sounds like you don’t want the power to go after the other side for misinformation.

SECRETARY RUBIO: We could build a whole building for that, but the best way is to say they’re lying and present the truth. Every day, the press reports things as fact that aren’t true. Our approach isn’t to shut them down or fine them but to counter with the truth. It’s harder and annoying, but if you create the power to shut down speech, someone in my position could later use it against us. That devolves rapidly, as we’ve seen with this experiment.